Episode 1

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Published on:

17th Oct 2024

Ali Bailey | The Francis Crick Institute

How do you communicate science so complex that even scientists find it hard to understand? How can communicators cope with the vast number of digital channels and platforms used today? What does 'values-based communication' mean and how can it help you develop a fantastic relationship with your audiences?

Join Peter Barker in conversation with Ali Bailey - Director of Communications and Public Engagement at The Francis Crick Institute, one of the world's largest biomedical research institutions, located in the heart of London.

We hope you'll enjoy, rate, review and share this episode - and we encourage you to join the conversation and let us know what you think!

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📕 This week's book recommendation is Thinking Fast, Thinking Slow by Daniel Kahneman

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Visit us at www.orinococomms.com | Contact me at peter@orinococomms.com | Join our community and subscribe to our newsletter at orinococomms.substack.com | Tell us what you think bit.ly/orinoco-speakpipe_pod

Transcript
Speaker:

A scientist will give you something golden

if they trust you.

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They trust you to handle it, telling you

carefully and responsibly and creatively.

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And if they hear a good product

at the end of that,

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they might talk to you again.

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Welcome to Research

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Unraveled, a brand new podcast

where we take a deep dive into the niche

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and impactful world of research,

communications in particular.

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We'll be exploring the complexity

that lies at the heart of this field,

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and hearing from communications experts

about how they navigate and overcome

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or unravel that complexity.

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Research

I'm brought is brought to you by me,

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Peter Barker,

the owner of Orinoco Communications,

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an agency where we specialize in working

with research based organizations.

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For this

first ever episode of the podcast,

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I am delighted to say

that we have as our guest, Allie

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Bailey, the Director of Communications

and Public Engagement

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at one of Europe's largest

and most renowned biomedical labs,

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London's Francis Crick Institute,

aka the Crick.

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If you've ever stepped outside King's

Cross station in north London

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and looked up, then you'll

certainly be familiar with the Crick's

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stunning building, with its curving

steel and glass and brickwork.

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Some of you may even have stepped inside

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for one of the many wonderful exhibitions

and open days.

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If so, then you may have encountered

some of the:

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who are busy working there

across more than 100 research groups

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to better understand health, disease

and how life works.

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Alongside those researchers is a team

of dedicated communications specialists

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who are responsible for sharing that work

with the outside world.

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Driving

that team's activities is Ali Bailey,

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who's been in the role since April 2022

when we chatted over the summer.

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Ali shared a number of complexities

that she's had to contend with since

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starting at the Crick, as well

as in previous research, comms roles

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as head of communications at Addenbrooke's

Hospital in Cambridge, for example.

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In this conversation,

we also talk about the various ways

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that she tries

to cut through that complexity.

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In particular, the importance

of having a laser like focus

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on a strategy that links directly

to the organization's mission.

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We also cover how to make sure you're

speaking to your audiences values.

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Why Ali thinks storytelling

needs to be at the center of everything

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the Crick does, from a comms

point of view.

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The Power of Video is a tool

for connecting audiences

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with research organizations,

and she also shares the best bit of comms

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advice she's ever received,

along with a cracking book recommendation.

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I'm so excited to be starting this podcast

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after so many months of planning

and development, and I honestly could not

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have thought of a better conversation

to kick things off.

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So here it is.

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Thank you so much for joining me

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as one of our first guests

on the new podcast.

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And so the theme of it, as we mentioned

when we last spoke, is around complexity.

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It was around

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the communication of research,

but the complexity of

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communicating research,

that seems to be its theme.

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I think that that runs across

all research comms.

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So my first question to you really is

in your role at the Francis

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Crick Institute, but also, you know, in

all the work you've done prior to this,

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is there one thing, that strikes you

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as being particularly complex

about the comms work that you do?

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I suppose where I'm coming from

is I'm a director of communications

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in an institute.

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So as well as talking about the products

that the Crick has,

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which is its science and its outcomes.

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We also talk a lot about the institute.

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We work for, the institute as a whole,

which is a slightly

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slightly different thing.

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And so some of what I'm going to say,

I think would apply to any organization,

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whether it was focused on research or not.

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But I suppose if I could get away with

just like three elements of complexity

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and I'll say the one I think

is perhaps hardest and most interesting.

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So obviously we've got the science itself

as a story.

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And biology,

that we focus on is particularly complex

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and difficult to put across highly,

highly, highly specialist, quite difficult

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even for scientists at the Crick

to understand

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each other's work without quite

a lot of background being given.

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And, the problem with biology

is that everything collides.

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So that said, infinite

numbers of chemical reactions going on,

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and they all seem to feed back on each

other in that mind boggling kind of loop.

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So it's quite difficult to put that

across, although there are simple ideas

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within biology, that help.

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And then I suppose communications

has become more complex as a discipline.

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So when I started,

which when I moved to media

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into an in-house well,

that was into the NHS

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and I was in a team of two

and we really only did two things.

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We did a monthly bulletin for staff,

a kind of call

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brief session, and we put out press

releases to the media.

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We had a very prototype website,

and by the time I left that job,

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we were running the website

within communications.

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We had social media just coming on stream.

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And so you've got this complexity

now of trying to tell

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maybe the same story,

but in multiple different ways in channels

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that are behaving very differently,

engaging very different audiences.

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And you can do it in January 2024.

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And by December 25th,

that channel has really changed in

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fundamental ways

that you need to keep up with.

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So there's a kind of question

of the complexity around,

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I want to say something about the Crick

and its science that's got quite

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a lot of integrity, and it's coherent

and it's all said the same thing.

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But how do you need what are now

much bigger teams, much bigger teams,

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so that they can get down

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into the weeds of a single story

on a single channel?

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But all of that, when you aggregate

it makes sense as a whole.

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And I think that's

that's the kind of operational complexity

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of and communications,

I think at the moment.

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And then and then I think as a,

as a kind of working at a strategic level,

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I'm quite interested in values

based complexity.

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And that's around really the fact

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that we're communicating for the purpose

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of having a relationship

with other people, different audiences.

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And I think that is an interesting concept

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that's particularly relevant

when we're trying to build relationships

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with other organizations, for instance,

that have their own set of values

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and their own aspirations

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for what they're trying to achieve

that don't quite match ours.

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But there's also value of its base

complexity,

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I think, within an organization

between teams and even within teams.

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And I think, you know, organizations

like to kind of create a set of values

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and they'll describe

what those values are.

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And to, to, to an extent, of course,

those are

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those are the values

that the leadership team sort of profess.

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But within that organization,

there will be people coming to the Crick

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that have slightly different values,

or they've got values

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that might conflict

with what the Crick's doing.

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So I think in lots of organizations,

you've often got staff who care

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passionately about sustainability

and climate change,

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and yet they're working in organizations

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that burn a lot of carbon

from fundamentally to do their work.

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And I think when it comes to having

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a successful communications strategy,

really the outcome of that should be

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that your institute has fantastic

relationships

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with its audiences

and an appreciative appreciation.

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I think of that kind of values based

complexity is is difficult to get to.

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It requires a lot of careful insight

and thinking

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about where everyone else is coming from.

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We know what we want to say,

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but what's everyone else trying to do

and how do we match across to that?

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That's really a very sort of high level.

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That's trying to think,

trying to figure out how to relate

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to the really complex ecosystem

that we're working in.

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Yeah. That's amazing.

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I mean, there's so many different, lessons

and aren't there there's sort of, as you

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said, the complexity of the subject

matter that you're having to deal with

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as a, as a research institute that deals

the exploring biological processes

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and those the complexity of the platforms

and the, you know,

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the explosion of digital platforms

and that you're having to consider with

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that different requirements as complexity

of the audience approach and so on.

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I think if we're going to, my next

question to you is going to be, you know,

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what are some of the ways

that you sort of unravel or sort of

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cut through that complexity?

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So I suppose to keep the answer

as simple as possible,

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we probably need to

perhaps pick 1 or 2 of those.

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Or is there one sort of unified approach

to dealing with complexity and comms

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generally? Yeah.

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How how do you how do you deal with this?

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Yeah.

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So I'll try I'll try not to give you

sorry.

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This time, I think

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the, I think a good communication strategy

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has a single kind of motivating idea,

if possible.

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And I don't always achieve that.

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I certainly haven't

done over my career, but.

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But one time I think I got closest was

when I worked at Addenbrooke's Hospital

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in Cambridge, which is a very big hospital

with about 20,000 staff,

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massive complexity around it.

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The communication strategy

was to make a big hospital feel smaller

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because big hospitals,

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can deliver phenomenal clinical outcomes

and excellent medical care.

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But the experience of that care

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for patients is often

quite daunting, can be too complex.

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And the institute sort of seems at loose

and sort of otherworldly

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because it's a big concrete edifice

on the south of Cambridge.

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So that was really helpful

because you could take that idea

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and make it work in lots of ways.

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It was about having in face, brief, person

to person,

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face to face briefings

instead of taking out emails.

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It was about the language

that we use, the tone of voice,

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which we did quite a lot of work

on leadership being more visible,

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much more focused on customer service,

trying to get down to that level,

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although that kind of transformation

would take many years.

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And even like, you know, minimizing

the use of capital letters,

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which every communicator likes to do,

that just like putting it down

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so that that was helpful.

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And at the Crick, we're

focused on telling a compelling story

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and what that's really saying is

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we've talked a lot

about the Institute of the Crick

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because it's a new institute

and it's its own sort.

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Just over five years since it opened,

there was a lot to establish there

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about who the Crick is,

why we, work the way we do, how

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we how we've been set up

and what we're here to, to deliver.

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And I think now the Crick's moving into

a phase where the proof is in the pudding.

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We really need to start talking

more about the science.

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What the

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impact of that science,

might be in society.

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So we're working

quite hard in our strategy

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to develop a kind of creative

storytelling confidence within the team,

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so that we can we can tell those stories

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and we can share them with audiences now,

and we can do that differently.

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I think in the current environment,

because we can run

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and manage our own digital channels

and we can actually amass

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a decent sized audience,

which was not the case ten years ago.

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That's interesting.

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So you because your background,

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one of your background

sources is a BBC producer, wasn't it

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creating science science stories

for for radio four, I believe.

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And so how much does that experience

kind of feed

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into your emphasis on storytelling now,

do you think?

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I mean, in a way,

you were on the other side,

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I suppose to an extent,

you were the journalists

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who were taking stories from places

like The Crypt to create stories.

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Now you're saying the Crick institutes,

like the Crick, have the capacity

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and power to to do that?

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Perhaps without the likes of the BBC,

and they can engage

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directly with audiences

without those middle people.

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I think we can, and I think it's

quite a different approach,

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than has been typical

of the kind of institutes press office.

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And it is a self-serving strategy

to some extent,

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because I love that kind of work,

and I find it fun.

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But I think teams do as well.

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And if you're if you're focusing as a team

on the, on on actually engaging in that,

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that craft, it's going to get you closer

to your scientists.

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Because I did learn at radio four,

particularly around

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science was a scientist

will give you something golden

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if they trust you,

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if they trust you to handle

what they're telling you carefully

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and responsibly and creatively

and if they hear a good product

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at the end of that,

they might talk to you again.

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You never know.

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And so and then obviously learning a lot

about structuring a story.

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And what point do you come in, how do you

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how do you find

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a kind of gateway to that story that

a large number of people can relate to?

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And, yeah, I mean, there were hard lessons

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doing that in the professional environment

at the BBC.

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Many of my programs were sort of cut

in-house, poached, start again, etc., etc.

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and that so so some of that we can do

in-house, some of that we could work

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more creatively in partnership

with other people doing that work

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at the moment in journalism or,

or other outlets.

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And so you're talking

about kind of training your team up

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with the, with the storytelling skills,

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because our skills

with storytelling on this,

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I mean, I think everybody

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some people have more

of a natural ability than others,

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but there are certain

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things that everybody can do

to become more, capable storytellers.

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Is that does that apply across

to the researchers as well?

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Are you trying to sort of

help them to tell their own stories,

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or does the comms team really act

as a conduit, between the public and,

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and the researchers for that?

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No, I mean, we have quite a

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big training program

for scientists in public engagement.

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So more of an interactive experience with,

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people come in to engage with the science,

but also media

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and communicating and, and, yeah,

telling the story of their science.

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And I think the brick,

with its kind of emphasis on early

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career researchers and just the

the kind of atmosphere of the creek tends

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to attract people

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who enjoy that kind of work, I would say

potentially more than other institutes.

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Other scientists

don't enjoy that kind of thing.

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And like you say, some are naturals

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and some really struggle with it

and they just don't want to do it.

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And that's fair enough. Yeah,

I guess there's no point.

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You're never going to get really,

fantastic outputs from forcing people

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to do something

that they don't want to do.

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And I you,

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I mean, we've actually filmed years ago

at the Crick,

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for some of the kind of discovery days and

lates that happened and I was struck by.

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Yeah, just the energy and enthusiasm

that came from the Crick's research

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for being involved in that kind of thing,

and obviously

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really getting so much out of interacting

with the public.

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So, yeah, it's been great.

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You were talking earlier

about one of the complexities being sort

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of this sort of values based approach to,

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I guess, understanding people

within the Crick's own,

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you know, world, those who work within it,

but also the audience.

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So, can you talk a little bit

about who the different audiences are?

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I think that's going to be

another level of complexity, isn't it?

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This is I'm

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sure there are multiple different

audiences,

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and even within those segmentations,

they're going to have sort

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of different values as well.

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So how on earth do you go about learning

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what those values are

and how you can speak to them?

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For each of your different audiences?

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Yeah, it's it's mind jokingly.

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Can't say that.

I'm going to say that again.

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It's very complex

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and try that today.

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So there's a kind of undifferentiated

general public mass audience.

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And if you if you sort of start there

and then there's scientists

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within the Crick

talking to other scientists in the Crick

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where they're going to be sharing very,

very technical information

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between each other.

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There's not a lot I can do to help them.

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I might be able

to give them a couple of pointers,

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but they're really talking at a scientist

to scientist level.

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And as you kind of work

back out to a bigger and bigger audience,

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I think the skills of communication

come into play increasingly

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and different types

of skills in that sense.

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So we have a kind of broad

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aim of raising the profile of Crick

and its science in the general public,

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because we want to be part of mainstream

discussion and debate

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so that young children know

that science exists.

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We'd like to see more science

generally in the media,

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in every possible broadcast opportunity

that people engage with.

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So we do do some work

that's very, very broad spectrum audience.

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Equally, we have quite an in-depth program

just in the borough of Camden,

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where we work in schools.

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So we have an education outreach program.

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We provide hands on science experiences

for every Camden

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people from reception up to 18.

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So that audience

we getting insights into those children

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and what they need from us

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via teachers, via their parents

and via the children themselves.

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But we're doing that. That's kind of,

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inherent in the work that

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we do, because it's face to face contact

all the time.

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We have another whole

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set of audiences around the founders

and the funders of the Crick.

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The government has put

a huge amount of money into the institute,

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and trying to understand how we can form

a really productive partnership

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with them going forward.

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That's partly sort of reporting on,

the outcome of that,

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their investment, but also helping them

with their aspirations going forward.

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So there's lots of different types

of much more in-depth audience work

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that we have to do,

and it's trying to have a sort of

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set of goals that might cover quite broad

span of different audiences,

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but I think the key point in that

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is that each project

that we're trying to deliver

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needs to have some involvement

built into it so that we do gain

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an actual insight into those audiences

before we create content and experiences,

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and hopefully those experiences

then give us really good feedback

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into the science

and how we might take it forward.

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So what does that kind of interaction

look like?

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I'm just trying to think of this

sort of an example of, of

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a kind of creative communications output,

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where you've involved,

I mean, the as you mentioned,

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the schoolchildren

is perhaps an easier one

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because you're going into those

schools and it is sort of,

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that face to face

contact is just part of the experience.

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But I suppose from additional digital

point of view,

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if you're if you've been doing a campaign

or something.

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Because any kind of tricks or tips,

I suppose, for,

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for how you've successfully interacted

with people to get their feedback, that's

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then kind of fed into the comms and fed

therefore into the science as well.

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Is there any,

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yeah.

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Success stories you've had with that?

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Well, I think that can happen

at different levels, so

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audiences can tell you what it is

they want to hear.

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They what kind of content

are you interested in?

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That's a kind of easy question

to try and get at.

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I think to a certain extent,

and we've certainly done

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that around quick exhibitions.

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So there be a huge

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amount of involvement work going on

and talking to the local community.

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For our most recent exhibition

about brains, for instance.

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About what?

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What are you interested in here?

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And we did some interesting work

there about the maternal brain

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during pregnancy

as a result of asking the community

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what they

what they'd like to know about brains,

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then I think there's been some

I project sort of springs to mind that,

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interesting, interesting projects that

define the language we're going to use.

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There was that campaign

to get girls into sports,

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and it was called This Girl Can.

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And I know that agency that did

that piece of work spent a long time

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with women, understand,

who do want to be women,

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ladies or girls.

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They, they kind of got to the heart of

how should that language be put together.

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So there's,

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there's there's two different elements

or what does this content need to be,

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but also how do I frame

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this content at this content

so that you can most easily relate to it.

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And ultimately the way to do that is to

actually just spend time with audiences.

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Absolutely. Yeah.

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That's a that's a great example

of a fantastic campaign.

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And so, in terms of reaching those people,

then once you've had those sort

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of consultations or opportunities

to learn, about sort of

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what kind of thing they're looking for

and the type of language you might use

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once you're sort of thinking about the,

the ways to reach them.

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So you mentioned the complexity

of platforms,

381

:

the sort of plethora of

382

:

platforms out there

and the different requirements for each.

383

:

Are there any trends or, shifts

that you're experiencing

384

:

at the moment or have experienced

over the last few months?

385

:

Any places

that you'll find a particular success

386

:

or routes that you're planning

on going down to reach?

387

:

Again, I'm sure it's going to be audience

specific, but different audiences.

388

:

I know hearing a lot about, you know,

the impact, the, the change of hands.

389

:

What was Twitter now

X has had on organizations like the crack

390

:

to reach to

to to disseminate their content and so on?

391

:

What? Yeah.

392

:

Is there any way that you're

393

:

sort of looking at at the moment

with particular interest?

394

:

I think fundamentally video as a format

in all its forms, so long form

395

:

video, for YouTube, tiny videos

for Instagram Reels, etc., etc.

396

:

I think the power of video is that

it can give our audiences

397

:

a, it's a lens through which

they can really see inside the craic.

398

:

They can see

what our laboratories look like,

399

:

they can see what our scientists sound,

400

:

look and sound like and is difficult

to put that across in text.

401

:

You can try and describe it,

but if you see it in a video

402

:

that definitely does something

that's unique and special and I think

403

:

can be inspiring and hugely engaging,

even if it's very,

404

:

very short, which they mostly need to be,

which is definitely no, not a discipline.

405

:

I was trying to, but younger people

in my team know what to do.

406

:

So I think that is obviously important.

407

:

And, and I think the difference

there now is you could make a film

408

:

and put it on your website

and that would be fine.

409

:

Now you can make a film

and you can share it across

410

:

many different channels

and actually get live feedback on that.

411

:

Salem.

412

:

So that that's, that's

a new sort of emerging skill set.

413

:

Still, I think it

evolves and changes all the time.

414

:

But I think that's really powerful.

415

:

I think within science there's

416

:

animation and visualization,

which are really interesting areas.

417

:

And we're we doing some work looking at

can we take the kind of animation

418

:

that draws directly from science data

419

:

to visualize something,

but can we render that visualization

420

:

or whatever they've created in such a way

421

:

that it's accessible to people

who aren't specialists in the area?

422

:

Because when scientists

do an animation for themselves, it's

423

:

that no one else has a clue

what they're looking at.

424

:

But I think we can still use

scientific data to create visualizations

425

:

of biology that everyone can understand

or can have has a chance of understanding.

426

:

I think that's quite interesting.

427

:

Yeah, and there's some really cool stuff

coming out

428

:

now, especially,

I guess, with the capacity

429

:

to interpret all this data

and turn out useful outputs with AI.

430

:

That's one of the one of the areas

where I think it will help for sure.

431

:

I mean, there's a lot of chat

about obviously generative AI in

432

:

in communications and in video for sure.

433

:

I somebody who runs a largely video

and animation agency,

434

:

I've got a keen eye on what's going on

from my point of view at the moment.

435

:

There's still a way to go before

it can do what,

436

:

what it needs, what it would need to do,

in order to create really

437

:

captivating, creative sort of human,

animations, for example. But

438

:

it can be incredibly powerful as a tool.

439

:

And I think, you know, that add

to that description you've just given of

440

:

sort of, data driven

visualizations is one of those for sure.

441

:

Yeah. And I think I,

442

:

I'm, I'm not as deep an expert

as I like to be, but it's

443

:

got some really interesting applications.

444

:

So I, I once dabbled in a project

that not here in the NHS that used

445

:

AI based, platforms

to crowdsource public opinion

446

:

on messaging,

which was really interesting.

447

:

I don't think in the commercial marketing

world this is quite commonplace now.

448

:

But you can bring together

groups of people online

449

:

and test your messaging alongside

and then adapt it and retest.

450

:

And so that kind of stuff

is, is also quite interesting.

451

:

We haven't ventured into that yet,

but it's in the back of my mind.

452

:

Watch this space.

453

:

So how is your app?

454

:

You mentioned, when we last spoke,

you were working on the new Crick's

455

:

new strategy.

456

:

Are you able to share sort of what

stage that sat?

457

:

When will we start seeing?

458

:

I'm sure it's sort of already

you're implementing

459

:

some of the things that will be from

anyway.

460

:

It's probably not going to be like

461

:

an immediate launch

and it's going to look totally different.

462

:

But, yeah.

463

:

What are the sort of

where are you at with that?

464

:

How's it all going?

465

:

Yeah, it's taking a while.

466

:

We've got assets.

467

:

We know we know

roughly what we want to do, and we're,

468

:

we're lining up our projects

in order of things that we're going to.

469

:

We're very much testing and experimenting

470

:

with certain things, seeing how it works.

471

:

And one of the key

elements of our strategy is partnering.

472

:

So what we're we're doing at the moment

is finding partnerships with either.

473

:

So creative producers

outside the Crick, various people working

474

:

perhaps in exhibitions, digital,

lots of different parts

475

:

of the industry

around us to pull together.

476

:

Like I say, some of this digital content,

particularly audio.

477

:

Initially we're going to look at actually

some digital magazines with

478

:

actually a bit of traditional printing,

potentially,

479

:

small amounts of that,

because that's kind of got its own usage.

480

:

Still, I think,

481

:

to but

482

:

it's all based really on having a telling

a story about the science,

483

:

having a discussion about the science,

484

:

in a space, a digital space primarily

485

:

where we're attempting

to build an audience for that.

486

:

And I don't think we can do that

on our own.

487

:

But we can.

We can, to a certain extent, be very slow.

488

:

So we just looking at what partnerships

we can put together and the linkages

489

:

that we can make, to kind of

bring that audience to our content.

490

:

Wonderful.

491

:

Well, I've been a long time

fan of this stuff that the the Crick

492

:

has been putting out.

493

:

And as I said, the exhibitions

and public engagements, events

494

:

and so on

have always been really phenomenal.

495

:

So yeah, really looking forward

to seeing what comes

496

:

off the back of the new strategy.

497

:

And over the years to come

in this new phase of the Crick's life.

498

:

It's very exciting.

499

:

A couple of final questions at first,

500

:

and this is one that I want to ask

all the guests that come on over the over

501

:

the coming months is

do you have a specific

502

:

favorite piece of communications

related advice

503

:

that you've been given

over the course of your career that you

504

:

come back to most often

that you found most useful?

505

:

Well, there was one.

506

:

There was one very blunt piece of advice

I got from a guy called

507

:

Jonathan Strait, who did a lot of crisis

508

:

communications in the NHS,

and that was never take public,

509

:

never take public

relations advice from a lawyer. And,

510

:

I love lawyers.

511

:

Some of my best friends are lawyers,

and they do a really good job.

512

:

And it's very important

to listen to their advice.

513

:

But they work at a very different

arena and said

514

:

that was useful and helpful advice

in the NHS for sure.

515

:

But I think the

516

:

one of the pieces of advice

I was given once by a doctor

517

:

actually was, you know, don't

buy into the organization so much, ally,

518

:

because I think I put together

a set of photographs that had some,

519

:

some quite sexy

images of surgeons doing their work,

520

:

and I thought they were great.

521

:

And I was quite

new into the NHS at the time,

522

:

but it was way to inwardly focused.

523

:

And I think that that kind of

I thought about it a lot because I think

524

:

communicators have to kind of

have one foot inside the organization

525

:

and one set outside and balance

those two perspectives,

526

:

because part of our job

527

:

is to actually bring the outside world

in to the organizations we're working in.

528

:

And I think that's probably the thing

I sort of ponder in many different guises.

529

:

That's that's brilliant and that's so

interesting. I think there's,

530

:

there was recently a bit of a

531

:

conversation, I guess, in the science

communication world when,

532

:

Fiona Fox, the head of the Science

Media Center, wrote a piece about,

533

:

universities about how comms is becoming

quite some reputation

534

:

based, I guess, protection

of the reputations of the universities.

535

:

And, that's leading to kind of a

closing off of, of conversation sometimes.

536

:

And that sort of strikes me as, you know,

that's what I thought

537

:

of when you're talking about that,

I guess, is sort of

538

:

you need to be thinking

what the outside needs

539

:

from a research institute,

perhaps sometimes just as much about what

540

:

the institute needs from its own comms,

given their public facing institutions.

541

:

So yeah. That's great.

542

:

Lovely. Oh, I'm sorry.

543

:

Before I forget, the final, final question

then, is

544

:

whether or not you've given us a piece

of comms advice that you could recommend.

545

:

How about is

there have been any books or articles?

546

:

Those could be documentary, a radio show.

547

:

Given your background in radio

that has sort of inspired

548

:

you in the work that you do and.

549

:

Well, I, I,

I didn't think about radio show.

550

:

It's a good one.

551

:

Reading wise, I think

552

:

I've probably got most out

of reading around the basics

553

:

or in some case slightly

more in depth of psychology and sociology,

554

:

because I think ultimately comms

is about individuals

555

:

and groups of people together,

and I think anyone going into comms

556

:

would get a huge amount of benefit

from reading a few key books in that area.

557

:

I suppose the one that

558

:

that I found really helpful was Thinking

Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman.

559

:

That tells you a lot about how

560

:

how communications really works,

and behavioral economics.

561

:

Really interesting book.

562

:

And then I was lucky enough

to do a master's in social innovation,

563

:

quite recently.

564

:

So then I've had a grounding in sociology

and some of that has been hugely useful.

565

:

So my kind of advice would be just go on

Google Scholar and type in communication

566

:

strategy

or anything else that you're working on,

567

:

because someone would have spent some time

studying that.

568

:

There you have it.

569

:

The first episode of Research Unraveled,

and what a way to get started.

570

:

The craic

571

:

really has become an absolute pioneer

in the world of biomedical research,

572

:

but I think it's similarly innovative

and bold with the way

573

:

it tells stories about that research.

574

:

Which is why

I wanted to feature this conversation

575

:

with Allie as our first episode.

576

:

She's such an experienced communicator,

577

:

and it was absolutely fascinating to hear

how she does it.

578

:

I think if I were to take away three

things from the conversation, it would be

579

:

that there are many complex challenges

that research communicators face.

580

:

But instead of surrendering

to that complexity,

581

:

you can find simplicity

by always coming back to your strategy,

582

:

which should be tightly pinned

to your institute's overarching mission

583

:

and that we need to be

584

:

constantly thinking about our audience's

values far more than we should be

585

:

thinking about whatever message it is

that we want to get across,

586

:

which is frankly, easier said than done.

587

:

And I think bears repeating.

588

:

Thank you so much to Allie

for agreeing to be our first guest.

589

:

Thanks also very much to the Orinoco team.

590

:

To Bianca, Joe and Adam

for a massive effort

591

:

over the past few months

to get this podcast ready for launch.

592

:

And most of all, thanks to you

all for listening.

593

:

Before I go,

I do have a couple of favors to ask,

594

:

so we've created this podcast

to be a valuable resource

595

:

for the whole research

communications community.

596

:

But it's only going to have value

if it's listened to.

597

:

And as most of you

I'm sure will know, building

598

:

an audience is not easy,

and it does rely on existing listeners

599

:

taking the time to review and rate

and share the podcast.

600

:

So that's what I'm asking you to do now.

601

:

We'd be massively grateful

if you could spare a few seconds

602

:

to give us a rating on whatever

podcast platform you're listening on.

603

:

Even better, if you can spare

a couple of minutes to leave a few words

604

:

about what you think of it so far

to leave a review, that would be amazing.

605

:

And the cherry on the cake would be,

if you could share this episode

606

:

with people in your network who you think

might be interested in hearing.

607

:

If you have any thoughts,

comments, or questions,

608

:

then you have three options

for how to reach us one.

609

:

If I social media

using the hashtag research unraveled,

610

:

but I must warn you, we're pretty much

exclusively on LinkedIn these days,

611

:

so that's the best place

to post about the podcast.

612

:

If you want us to respond, you could also

email us Peter at Orinoco coms.com.

613

:

Or if you feel so inclined,

we'd love to hear your actual voice

614

:

so you can leave a voice memo

on a platform called Speak Pipe.

615

:

And we've put links to all of these ways

of connecting in the show notes.

616

:

I'll be back with another conversation

617

:

with a top research

comms practitioner in a month,

618

:

but before that, in two weeks time,

I will be joined by my wonderful colleague

619

:

and co-host Bianca Winter

for an extra slice of research unraveled,

620

:

where we'll be bringing you all

sorts of research, comms related delights.

621

:

See you then.

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About the Podcast

Research Unravelled
A podcast exploring the complex world of research communications
Welcome to Research Unravelled - a podcast exploring the impactful world of research communications.

We'll be digging into the complexity that lies at the heart of this field and hearing from expert practitioners about how they navigate or unravel that complexity.

Research Unravelled is hosted by Peter Barker and brought to you by Orinoco Communications - the creative agency where we specialise in helping research organisations to tell their stories and give their research the reach it deserves.

In addition to his monthly conversations with experts Peter will also be joined by colleague and co-host, Bianca Winter, for bonus episodes where they will respond to listeners' comments and questions and discuss the latest news from the world of research comms.

About your host

Profile picture for Peter Barker

Peter Barker

Peter is a multimedia producer with more than fifteen years experience creating documentaries, animations and other forms of digital content for TV and online. Before starting Orinoco Communications in 2016 Peter worked as a television producer and director, a job that took him all over the world, filming everywhere from NASA bases in the U.S.A. to volcanic islands in the Pacific ocean to ancient Mayan ruins in Central America. Now he has a more sedate life, living with his family by the sea on the east coast of England.